Water in lower while hoooked to a hose

deserttoad	Hi all again, I just got my Mercruiser 140 back together, but my oil is turning to milk while hooked to hose in the yard. Since it's not in the water, does that narrow down what my problem might be now? Something simple like a water pump? Thanks for all the previous help - I hope these problems are getting smaller... Man, the dang thing worked fine all winter in the shed....http://www.iboats.com/ubb/smile.gif Desert Toad	2002-08-03
Trent Crawford	Water in the lower unit or water in the engine?	2002-08-03
deserttoad	AHHH!!! Whoa. You brought back some bad flashbacks. Fixed the water in the engine problem LAST year. Hehe. Yep, water in the lower unit, and I know that the upper and lower are coneected. Just rebuilt the lower and got seal kits for upper and lower, hoping I just missed a seal, where shall I look first? Thanks, Jim	2002-08-03
Trent Crawford	Did you replace the seals and gaskets under the waterpump impeller? Also the shift shaft seal? How about the quad seal between the upper and lower unit (starboard side)looks like a o-ring. Quad seal is item # 7. Also look at the pic and see if you replaced the seals under the impeller. (You did not list year but this covers most models)	2002-08-03
deserttoad	I replaced all seals you mentioned, except the shift shaft seal. As water as it looked like got in there in 5-10 minutes, I'm thinking about just buying an entire water pump, perhaps I didn't get the pump seat properly...	2002-08-03
Walter	My MerCruiser factory manual warns against using full "house" pressure when connecting a garden hose to the water intake. My assumption is they are concerned excessive water pressure may blow past the seals. Remember that your impeller is, under normal operating conditions, drawing water with zero pressure. It's pulling water vs. having water forced up to it. Considering you've just performed some extensive work to your lower unit suggests you may have erred in the assembly...it's easy to do!! However...what I mentioned above may be something to consider if all appears to be ok otherwise. For what it's worth... Walt	2002-08-04
deserttoad	Hmmm. I've always used just enough pressure that it sort of dribbles around the lower unit. Perhaps I could remove the lower unit and attach the hose with real low pressure and watch what happens...	2002-08-04
Walter	Oh boy...be careful there! While I understand Merc's warning...you still need to have enough pressure to force the water up to the impeller. About a month ago...I hooked my type one outdrive to a faucet that was defective...didn't have enough water pressure to the impeller. The end result? A very toasted impeller & housing. Live and learn I guess. So be oh so careful of starving water to your impeller. I think you missed something in the rebuild...like I said...it's easy to do. Pay close attention to Trent's advice and go back through the outdrive again... Walt	2002-08-04
Walter	Oh nuts...I misread your post. You're talking about taking the lower unit off then doing the hose thing. You can do that...but I don't know what it's going to prove. Again, you should double check the work you've done to the outdrive. Am I safe in assuming you DIDN'T have water in the gear lube prior to the work you performed? Walt	2002-08-04
deserttoad	Man o Man. I just want to go boating - is that so much to ask? (sniff, sniff). I took an older lower unit and put the #1 drive shaft from Aftermarket Marine in it, so it would work with my upper (13 spline). So I kitted the top and bottom end. The water was in the oil so quick, I'm hoping it's something simple in the water pump - but I imagine it's not that easy. Next step - remove lower unit (again!) and check out water pump? Or is there something obvious I should look for? I could rebuild a Chevy 350, but can't stop an oil leak in a boat, hehe. Thanks a bunch, Jim	2002-08-04
Walter	Look at the diagram Trent posted. See the o-ring that fits between the gear housing and drive housing (#7 on the diagram)? If that's missing...or somehow didn't seat properly...water will enter the gear lube immediately. Be watchful for that o ring when you remove the gear housing to see if it's properly in place. If that's ok, then closely look how you assembled the water pump and be certain it matches the diagram. Good luck...hang in there. It's only a machine! Walt	2002-08-04
deserttoad	Thank you so much. I know I put that seal in there, put maybe it didn't seat well. I'm on my to begin the war. I will overcome. I'm a farmer not a sailor... Jim	2002-08-04
Trent Crawford	If on the hose only....Check those water pump seals and gaskets, o-rings, and housing.	2002-08-04
deserttoad	Okay gang. Took the lower unit off and attached the hose. Water was gushing from the bottom of the water pump. Pulled to pump off and the large o-ring wasn't seated right. Fixed that, put it back on the hose, everything okay. Put back on boat - water in the oil again. Repeated above process - water is coming from the bottom of the pump and the top - around the thick o-ring(meaning I did get water a little higher). The bottom of the pump has been wearing on the plastic as well. So I think if all seals were okay, it would run water just out the guide sleeve right? My plan now is an all new water pump - this sound like the right plan? (I had just kitted the old one). Also, does one pump fit all? Since I have a newer upper attached to an older lower with aftermarket drive shaft. Thanks again for all the help. Jim	2002-08-04
Walter	Nope...there are differences in the housings. I can't tell which one you need, but take the old one with you to be sure it matches the replacement exactly. Remember how I told you I burnt up my water pump by not supplying enough water to it? My marine tech buddy thought he had a base housing for my type 1, but it differed slightly...not by much, but enough that it wouldn't work. Are you sure you're assembling the water pump "by the book"? There are certain steps you need to insure not to omit... Anyway, it sounds like you are zeroing in on the problem. Don't fret...I'll bet Trent can tell you exactly what pump housing you need. Walt	2002-08-04
deserttoad	Seems as though whenever I "zero" in on a problem, another shows...I was once told the two happiest days of owning a boat are the day you buy and the day you sell it. But I'm keeping this one, and the sooner it learns the better...hehe. As for the water pump, the way the plastic was chewed up a bit is cause for concern, and it was leaking in the top and bottom halves, so I'll replace both, just don't see many complete pumps for sale, maybe I'm not looking right. As for the differences in the housing, it belongs to the lower unit right? So if I take that serial number to the shop, I'll get the right one - maybe the unit I have has the wrong pump... Thanks again!	2002-08-04
Walter	I may be wrong, but I believe you can purchase a kit that has just the impeller, drive key, and assorted gaskets etc.. You can also buy the same kit which also contains the top pump housing. However, I think the pump base comes as a separate piece. That was the case with my Type 1 anyway... Yes, because the pump is located in the gear housing...you'll need to match all the necessary pump components to that specific gear housing. I can't say for sure that you can mate the gear housing you have to a different drive housing...maybe Trent can shed some light on that one. It may be helpful to him if you post the serial numbers from both the drive and gear housing. With that said however...I don't recall seeing a serial number anywhere on my gear housing. The only one I've ever seen is on the drive housing. Geez...I hope your problem isn't that your two housings are incompatable.... Walt	2002-08-05
deserttoad	Yikes! Please don't say that. People at Aftermarket Marine said they were... After spending almost $300 on parts to change my old unit over, I got an offer for $300 plus my lower for one ready to go. ** **.	2002-08-05
Walter	Sorry man...didn't mean to get you all fired up. I'm just considering the different possibilities. If you believe the pump housings are compromised, then take the whole frickin' lower unit to the dealer and buy the whole pump assembly. That way he can see exactly what you've got...and what you need. Take extra care in assembling the pump components...put it all back together and see what happens. Good luck! Walt	2002-08-05
deserttoad	Wow, yer fast! I was just thinking (always a bad thing), and it seems the lower part of the pump fits real tight, is there a trick to make sure the o-ring get put in right without rolling over? I had to tap it a bit to get it down all the way. The water was leaking from there and the top of the water pump around the shaft, I think I have another used top around here somewhere, so if I get the o-ring seated good, maybe....just maybe... thanks again! Jim	2002-08-05
Walter	If I understand your question correctly...yes that's right. The pump base (diagram #24 ) does fit snuggly. You definitely want to insure the large O-ring on the bottom of the base is well greased. Otherwise it may roll up as you press the base into place. I used Vaseline...but just about any multi-purpose grease will work. Also, be sure to wrap the drive shaft slines with a piece of masking tape to prevent damaging the seals/o-rings as you install them onto the shaft. I used some liquid dish soap to lube up the impeller as I installed it in the base housing...some guys just use grease for that. Anyway...you know the drill. Just go back together by the book... Walt	2002-08-05
Trent Crawford	Look at the bottom of this page (link) it should answer all your questions on parts. Go to Napa with the 18- number and order them. http://www.theshadconnection.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?page=505	2002-08-05
deserttoad	Thanks Trent. I bet I'll save a few bucks in the process. Is there a sure way to make sure I get the correct pump? My lower is a 1973. we're getting oh so close... Jim	2002-08-05
Trent Crawford	Go back to the web page... S/N 2791957-4893634 1970-1977 year models	2002-08-05
deserttoad	Great! I will order one tomorrow, just hope the dumb kid at my local Napa can figure it out. Thanks again! Jim	2002-08-05
MrBill	Desert Toad: You may have gotten into a nasty little mess....note that the schematic that Trent posted specifically says that the gear housing type shown has an "A" or "M" stamped on the propeller shaft. This is critical !!! There is also a slightly different Alpha I type of lower unit. It is vertually identical, and the appropriate parts must be used, many are not interchangeable. I understand that Trent sent the schematic as a general guide, but you need to know the specific lower unit type and use the right part numbers (eye-balling seemingly similar parts is not close enough). Check out this site which shows schematics and lists the official Mercruiser part numers by engine and drive type. http://www.Mercruiserparts.com/ Unfortunately, lower unit work is generally not for the novice.	2002-08-06
deserttoad	Sheesh. Good news, bad news, good news, bad news. This could drive a man to drinkin. I couldn't get the parts lookup to work on that webpage, but I know I have a 1973 lower, isn't the water pump the same on 1970-1977 models? thanks.	2002-08-06
Trent Crawford	If you got the orginal drive...Order P/N 18-3317 from NAPA...Its the whole kit.	2002-08-06
Walter	Trent... Does that kit also include the base?? Walt	2002-08-06
MrBill	The 120/140/165 STERN DRIVE (1970 thru 1977) should bear a serial number between 2791957 THRU 4893634. Try this URL: http://www.Mercruiserparts.com/Show_pictures3.asp?dnbr=%2056999%20%20%20&ivar=images/CRUISER/56999/15.png&inbr=1574&bnbr=8&bdesc=GEAR+HOUSING+ASSEMBLY%2C+COMPLETE	2002-08-06
Trent Crawford	Walter......Yes it does.	2002-08-06
chesire_catt	Trent can I order any item through napa that is listed on that web site useing their numbers? Are their prices the same?	2002-08-06
deserttoad	My local Napa had the total kit for 64.00. But just for fun I called a boat store, they had one for $56.00, plus I didn't have to order it. Also, there is no letter on the end of the prop shaft. And I don't have a flush plug. Looks like the water pump on my unit has the flat spot for the flush plug, slightly the wrong pump. Boat store guy says the wrong will work most of the time, and you don't want to use the flush plug anyway....so I know for sure I'm getting the right unit now. But in the Napa store I thumbed through their book on Mercruiser, they have ALL KINDS of stuff, all electrical items, complete engine overhall kits, gaskets, starters, you name it. Thanks a bunch, I'll get back to work on it in a couple of days. Desert Toad	2002-08-07
Trent Crawford	Prices at Napa are normally a couple of dollars higher than some online places. But you don't normally have to pay shipping and they are there the next day.	2002-08-07
Walter	It's been my experience that Napa is generally much less expensive than my local Mercury dealer...but it certainly pays to compare prices. Napa charged me almost $2 per spark plug...I found another auto parts store down the street that sold them for half that. Not a lot of savings...but hey, it put another couple gallons of gas in the boat!! Toad...considering all you've been through...for crying out loud...PLEASE insure you buy the correct parts for your outdrive!! Summer's passing you by! Walt	2002-08-07
deserttoad	Yes, summer is passing me by. But our usual lake is almost dry due to a drought. But there is another one I'm eyeing about an hour and half away. soon I hope...soon. New water pump arrive tonight. The war begins again tomorrow.	2002-08-07
deserttoad	ARGH! I just got set to attach my new water pump. And then I noticed there is no seal in the top half of the unit between the steel insert and the top half of the pump. (See attached photo). The seal in the picture is one that came with my rebuild kit, and I'm not sure if it's the right, if I need one, and if so how to get it in there. I think I will call the shop tomorrow and tell them I did get it. again - any help would be great! Jim	2002-08-07
deserttoad	I suppose by now you're all thinking I'm a lost cause...but I called back my boat shop and they said there is no seal up there, seems a bit odd, looks like the old one did. So I shall commence with the attack soon.	2002-08-08

If you would like to post your own question for the experts just click on
the Boating Forums tab at the top of the page or click here!

Disclaimer: iboats.com provides this content for the education and benefit of all boating enthusiasts.
We cannot, however, take responsibility for individual postings, nor can we verify the accuracy of any posting.
Please use any information provided from individuals with great care and read any applicable manuals or safety instructions.
Also, if you determine that a posting is inaccurate or offensive in any manner, please email us.